Sunday, June 5, 2011
Gobbo's Forge: Prices... AWAY!!!!
Gobbo's Forge: Prices... AWAY!!!!: "Just to give an idea of the way a friend of mine feels about the latest GW price hike: This cartoon was done by Brian Simpson and you c..."
Saturday, June 4, 2011
Living Rules Compromise Document
Here's what I have so far, a document that helps smooth out some of the rough edges...
Imperial Guard Army List: The Imperial Guard Army list has several issues that are impacted by model availability and NPE. Specifically Command Sections and the minimum number of Tactical Guardsman Squads needed to field an army. The rules indicate that a squad must have a model within12” of a member of a Command Section. Additionally, a minimum of four Tactical Squads was required to even play an Imperial Guard Army, and this number had to be met before adding any other squad types.
Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader Rules Supplement
A listing of rules issues and possible solutions to facilitate play
This document is meant to help players of 1st Edition Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader (WH40KRT) enjoy playing an out of print and at time contentious game. Rules that are discussed here might impact the game in different ways ranging from enjoyment to model/material availability. The default position of this document is to play by the rules as written. This document offers compromises and suggestions as exceptions to the rules. This document assumes players will be using the WH40KRT Rulebook, Compendium, and Compilation.
Negative Play Experience: Possibly the most difficult issue to address in miniatures games because there is a winner and a loser. There are, however, rules within the games that might increase feelings of NPE. Outlined below are some rules that should probably be discussed before creating an army and playing a game.
Negative Play Experience: Possibly the most difficult issue to address in miniatures games because there is a winner and a loser. There are, however, rules within the games that might increase feelings of NPE. Outlined below are some rules that should probably be discussed before creating an army and playing a game.
Vortex, Virus, and Rad Grenades are an upgrade for many models in the game. Rad Grenades can be loaded into OGL’s carried by the Imperial Guard and can destroy an entire enemy army. Vortex and Virus grenades are less plentiful but no less deadly.
Therefore, limiting these grenades or eliminating them from lists altogether might be considered. Of the three, the Vortex grenade has the smallest potential for NPE, but it is still essentially a Silver Bullet in that it can bypass most defenses that players incorporate into their lists.
Suggestions:
- No Virus, Vortex or Rad Grenades are allowed to be taken in any army list unless they appear as Basic or Standard Equipment.
- Limit Vortex and Rad Grenades to Personality models only. Limit Virus Grenades to one per army.
Winning the Game: While not a negative play experience, there aren’t any real victory conditions in WH40KRT. This can lead to games taking a very long time to complete with a player having only a handful (or less) of models left constantly running away from a much larger force. Turn limits were added to the 2nd edition of the game to help with this, as well as victory points.
Suggestions:
Suggestions:
- Enforce a turn limit between 4 to 8 turns of play. The player with the most Victory Points is the winner. Victory Points are equal to 10% of a Personality Model/Squad/Vehicle’s point cost, rounding normally.
- Enforce a Victory Point limit equal to 50% of the total game size. If the game is 2000 points, then the first player to earn 100 Victory Points is the winner regardless of turn length.
Vehicle Rules: Vehicles are a rather complicated issue with WH40KRT. A template was added for shooting at vehicles, but this item is difficult to find or duplicate, and data sheets for vehicles are likewise difficult to find. Additionally, the cost of many vehicles were reduced after the fact. Reasons given for the cost reduction were mainly due to balancing the use of vehicles. The updated rules for vehicles were released in a book, much like the Compilation or Compendium, which included data sheet for all the vehicles. Players owning this book and the requisite targeting template should use them. Players without those items may wish to compromise.
Suggestions:
Suggestions:
- Utilize the rules found within the rulebook for vehicles.
- Utilize the cost decreases (if the players have access to White Dwarf 135).
Space Marine Army List: The Space Marines Army list has a few rules issues that impact the game in terms of the availability of models. Essentially for Squads, any upgrades must be universal for each squad type. Additionally, a Techmarine is required for each vehicle taken in a list. Because RT Era models aren’t readily available for purchase, these two rules can impede actually building an army to play with.
Suggestions:
- Allow each squad to be outfitted individually. This should allow players freedom to field models they might not otherwise be able to.
- Ignore “What you see is what you get” for Squads, and indicate in writing what the models actually carry.
- Increase the cost of each vehicle that requires a Techmarine by the cost of a Techmarine (who pilots the vehicle). If the vehicle is destroyed, so is the Techmarine. The Techmarine may only repair the vehicle he is assigned to.
Imperial Guard Army List: The Imperial Guard Army list has several issues that are impacted by model availability and NPE. Specifically Command Sections and the minimum number of Tactical Guardsman Squads needed to field an army. The rules indicate that a squad must have a model within12” of a member of a Command Section. Additionally, a minimum of four Tactical Squads was required to even play an Imperial Guard Army, and this number had to be met before adding any other squad types.
Suggestions:
- Change Command Sections to “must have a model within Line of Sight of (or to) a model in the Command Section”.
- Change the minimum number of Squads to either 2, 1, or 0.
Idiosyncracies of the Space Marine Army List
I was putting down on paper, or rather on my pc, the models I had and calculating what I'd have to play with in terms of points. I found that there are only three required models in a Space Marine Army: A Lieutenant, a Medic, and a Librarian.
That's right, you could field a Space Marine Army with only three models...
Another potential issue has to do with how the Squads are equipped. The list allows for different weaponry for the squads, but if (for example) you swap out a Flamer for a Graviton Gun in a Tactical Squad, you have to swap ALL your Flamers for Graviton Guns...and that's a problem. I already had an issue because Tactical Squads aren't allowed to take Heavy Bolters (I was able to reorganize squads a bit).
The problem I'm seeing is that there isn't a lot of RT era models out there, and beggars can't be choosers. I'm leaning towards not using that rule, but then we enter the murky world of House Rules.
I've decided to create a document that isn't House Rules per se, but rather a "Gentleman's Agreement" as to which rules will be used in a given game. Of course, I could just throw the WYSIWYG rules right out and this particular issue goes away. This isn't the best answer, either. Thumbing through the Imperial Army...I mean Imperial Guard list, I could easily see things that make less sense. 4 Tactical Squads as a minimum requirement seems a bit drastic. It seemed drastic back when I was playing RT as a kid, too. I'm not too sure that most of the army construction rules were factored into the cost of units. The Platoon system seemed less like a balance thing and more like an aesthetic thing.
Another interesting thing is my Space Marine Scouts that I have. Old school models that never had rules in 1st Edition. What I've decided to do is to put them in my 3rd Tactical Squad (my so called "Ugly Squad" due it being a dumping ground for my less favorite or problematic models). 1st Edition allows for splitting Space Marine Squads (a feature that I'd either forgotten or never realized) and I thought that it would be ok to have those five models separate from their Tactical Squad to "scout ahead"...Their armaments are pretty close to regular Space Marines, so I don't think it will be that much of a problem for opponents.
On the painting front, all models are built, assigned to a role (more or less) and primed. Today I took a step in painting the vehicles that I think will help. I found a can of Royal Blue spray paint that I'd purchased a while ago to make Warmachine Tokens and I hit the tanks with it. A quick drybrush of Exile Blue (from the P3 line) and an Inking with straight Blue Ink (I still have several bottles of GW Blue Ink, and P3 makes Blue Ink) gets the color I'm looking for. Now for the red...
That's right, you could field a Space Marine Army with only three models...
Another potential issue has to do with how the Squads are equipped. The list allows for different weaponry for the squads, but if (for example) you swap out a Flamer for a Graviton Gun in a Tactical Squad, you have to swap ALL your Flamers for Graviton Guns...and that's a problem. I already had an issue because Tactical Squads aren't allowed to take Heavy Bolters (I was able to reorganize squads a bit).
The problem I'm seeing is that there isn't a lot of RT era models out there, and beggars can't be choosers. I'm leaning towards not using that rule, but then we enter the murky world of House Rules.
I've decided to create a document that isn't House Rules per se, but rather a "Gentleman's Agreement" as to which rules will be used in a given game. Of course, I could just throw the WYSIWYG rules right out and this particular issue goes away. This isn't the best answer, either. Thumbing through the Imperial Army...I mean Imperial Guard list, I could easily see things that make less sense. 4 Tactical Squads as a minimum requirement seems a bit drastic. It seemed drastic back when I was playing RT as a kid, too. I'm not too sure that most of the army construction rules were factored into the cost of units. The Platoon system seemed less like a balance thing and more like an aesthetic thing.
Another interesting thing is my Space Marine Scouts that I have. Old school models that never had rules in 1st Edition. What I've decided to do is to put them in my 3rd Tactical Squad (my so called "Ugly Squad" due it being a dumping ground for my less favorite or problematic models). 1st Edition allows for splitting Space Marine Squads (a feature that I'd either forgotten or never realized) and I thought that it would be ok to have those five models separate from their Tactical Squad to "scout ahead"...Their armaments are pretty close to regular Space Marines, so I don't think it will be that much of a problem for opponents.
On the painting front, all models are built, assigned to a role (more or less) and primed. Today I took a step in painting the vehicles that I think will help. I found a can of Royal Blue spray paint that I'd purchased a while ago to make Warmachine Tokens and I hit the tanks with it. A quick drybrush of Exile Blue (from the P3 line) and an Inking with straight Blue Ink (I still have several bottles of GW Blue Ink, and P3 makes Blue Ink) gets the color I'm looking for. Now for the red...
Friday, June 3, 2011
Baby Steps
Spent most of yesterday organizing my models into squads and trying to find appropriate backpacks for the models. Had to scratch build a couple and use an old Space Wolf Scout backpack. Then I started working on the vehicles. I had to do a lot of work on the Land Raider to get it to where I was happy with it. I scratch built the missing drive train from a section of sprue (I was lucky to have some of the Land Raider parts still on the sprue). I got the Land Raider Primed.
Tonight I'm working on the Rhinos. One is already taken care of, as are the two Whirlwinds. I should have a decent mechanized Crimson Fist army when all is said and done. Still need to take a look at the rules for the vehicles in general and the specific rules for the ones I have.
I was stoked to find an old Large Monster Base to put my Dreadnought on. I also rebased all my Terminators to the original small bases that they were packaged with.
I really miss how easy it is to trim lead models. Pewter is so much more rigid. Much of the flash (yes, there is flash on the old models still) can be taken care without even using a knife or file.
Once the models are primed and at least base coated dark blue I plan on getting a couple photos of them up here.
The Furibundus Dreadnought is finished, for the most part, as are some of the models from back when I was working on this army for 4th Edition. I'll get some photos of those up here soon.
Tonight I'm working on the Rhinos. One is already taken care of, as are the two Whirlwinds. I should have a decent mechanized Crimson Fist army when all is said and done. Still need to take a look at the rules for the vehicles in general and the specific rules for the ones I have.
I was stoked to find an old Large Monster Base to put my Dreadnought on. I also rebased all my Terminators to the original small bases that they were packaged with.
I really miss how easy it is to trim lead models. Pewter is so much more rigid. Much of the flash (yes, there is flash on the old models still) can be taken care without even using a knife or file.
Once the models are primed and at least base coated dark blue I plan on getting a couple photos of them up here.
The Furibundus Dreadnought is finished, for the most part, as are some of the models from back when I was working on this army for 4th Edition. I'll get some photos of those up here soon.
What I have to work with
The first thing that I wanted to take a look at was the actual models I owned and what I could do with them. Thankfully I hadn't gotten very far with my original plan of updating the Crimson Fists (all of which are Rogue Trader Era models) to the recent edition's Space Marine Codex. That made squad construction easier.
Here's what I have. Most of the models are completely RT Era. In some cases, such as the Land Raider, I've had to convert (often times using contemporary model parts) the kit because it was incomplete.
Squads:
1 Tactical Terminator Squad with Assault Cannon. I have a Heavy Flamer and a Cyclone Missile Launcher that I can swap into this squad if needed. I have an additional Assault Cannon Terminator, too.
1 Assault Terminator Squad with two Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators, two Terminators with Storm Bolters and Power Gloves, and a Sergeant with Lightning Claws. I'm keeping a lookout for RT Era Assault Terminators to fold into this squad. If I can find a couple, I have a decent chance at building a second Tactical Terminator Squad.
3 Tactical Space Marine Squads.
All three squads have a Sergeant with a Power Glove. One features a Missile Launcher and Flamer, a second has Plasma Gun and Multi-Melta and the third features a Conversion Beamer and a Graviton Gun.
1 Devastator Space Marine Squad.
This squad has a Sergeant armed with a Boltgun, two Heavy Bolters, a Lascannon, and a Missile Launcher.
Characters and Individual Models:
Original RT Era Assassin (the model looks like the inspiration for both the Callidus and Eversor Assassins).
Inquisitor
Assault Space Marine with an original Jump Pack (which will most likely be a Hero)
A Scout Model that I might paint up as a Rogue Trader.
A Techmarine on foot.
A Techmarine on a Vincent Black Shadow Bike.
3 Librarians
1 Terminator Librarian
1 Terminator Captain with Stormbolter, Power Glove, Power Sword and Grenade Launcher
1 Chaplain
1 Space Marine with Power Fist and Bolter (also very likely to be used as a Hero)
2 Medics
1 Marine with a Bolter
1 Marine with a pistol and a chainsword (one of the aforementioned original Space Marine Models)
1 Marine with a lasgun w/bayoney (another of the original Space Marines. I'm counting this weapon, which bears no real resemblance to any other lasgun, as a Graviton gun)
1 Space Marine in an early version of Artificer Armor
Vehicles:
1 Furibundus Dreadnought (features two Boltguns on the right arm and a Lascannon on the left arm)
1 Land Raider
2 Whirlwinds (converted from Rhinos, as described originally in White Dwarf)
4 Rhinos, featuring original railings on three of them and all original Bolt Guns.
Here's what I have. Most of the models are completely RT Era. In some cases, such as the Land Raider, I've had to convert (often times using contemporary model parts) the kit because it was incomplete.
Squads:
1 Tactical Terminator Squad with Assault Cannon. I have a Heavy Flamer and a Cyclone Missile Launcher that I can swap into this squad if needed. I have an additional Assault Cannon Terminator, too.
1 Assault Terminator Squad with two Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators, two Terminators with Storm Bolters and Power Gloves, and a Sergeant with Lightning Claws. I'm keeping a lookout for RT Era Assault Terminators to fold into this squad. If I can find a couple, I have a decent chance at building a second Tactical Terminator Squad.
3 Tactical Space Marine Squads.
All three squads have a Sergeant with a Power Glove. One features a Missile Launcher and Flamer, a second has Plasma Gun and Multi-Melta and the third features a Conversion Beamer and a Graviton Gun.
1 Devastator Space Marine Squad.
This squad has a Sergeant armed with a Boltgun, two Heavy Bolters, a Lascannon, and a Missile Launcher.
Characters and Individual Models:
Original RT Era Assassin (the model looks like the inspiration for both the Callidus and Eversor Assassins).
Inquisitor
Assault Space Marine with an original Jump Pack (which will most likely be a Hero)
A Scout Model that I might paint up as a Rogue Trader.
A Techmarine on foot.
A Techmarine on a Vincent Black Shadow Bike.
3 Librarians
1 Terminator Librarian
1 Terminator Captain with Stormbolter, Power Glove, Power Sword and Grenade Launcher
1 Chaplain
1 Space Marine with Power Fist and Bolter (also very likely to be used as a Hero)
2 Medics
1 Marine with a Bolter
1 Marine with a pistol and a chainsword (one of the aforementioned original Space Marine Models)
1 Marine with a lasgun w/bayoney (another of the original Space Marines. I'm counting this weapon, which bears no real resemblance to any other lasgun, as a Graviton gun)
1 Space Marine in an early version of Artificer Armor
Vehicles:
1 Furibundus Dreadnought (features two Boltguns on the right arm and a Lascannon on the left arm)
1 Land Raider
2 Whirlwinds (converted from Rhinos, as described originally in White Dwarf)
4 Rhinos, featuring original railings on three of them and all original Bolt Guns.
Why 1st Edition?
A friend of mine recently moved away and bequeathed to me all of his Warhammer 40,000 models (mostly Sisters of Battle). In the collection was an old hardback copy of Rogue Trader. As is the case with most copies of this book, the binding is mostly disintegrated. I've kept my original copy of Rogue Trader out of sentimental reasons, and this recent addition to my back catalog of gaming got me thinking about Warhammer 40,000 again.
I really can't stand the current edition of Warhammer 40,000 and I'd given up on Games Workshop as a company long ago. I haven't played in almost three years, most of my gaming now is Warmachine and/or Hordes and I'm very happy with Privateer Press. Yet deep down inside I've always had this love of Warhammer 40,000. Not because the rules were any good. Quite the opposite, in fact. Not because the models were awesome. It's because its the first real game I ever really played and loved. It also might have to do with the science fiction elements that are prevalent in the background. That's something that I'm missing in Privateer Press right now.
About four years ago I threw all my old Space Marine models into a bucket of Simple Green (a great household product that also happens to safely remove paint from plastic models). I got the idea then to repaint the models as Crimson Fists as an homage to the original rulebook cover (which features the last stand of a group of heroic Crimson Fist Space Marines). Back then (in the heady days of 4th edition) I was intent on making an army for each of the loyalist Marine Chapters as well as rounding out my Imperial Fists and their successor chapters (I already had a decently painted Black Templars Army).
Then 5th edition came out. I tried. I really tried to enjoy playing, but the changes to the game infuriated me. For every rule that *needed* to be changed, four other rules were randomly changed as well. Most infuriating was the addition of "True Line Of Sight" which, in case you didn't know, isn't *actually* true line of sight.
Richard Linklater once said that "withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy". That's pretty much how I feel about Warhammer 40,000 right now. I don't expect that it will change for the better any time soon. Games Workshop seems intent upon making money at the expense of their players, and that's fine. I just don't plan on playing along.
And so my marine armies (and my three Tau armies, my two Eldar armies, my two Imperial Guard armies, my Chaos Marine armies...)sat in their cases and were neatly stacked against the wall. Then Ellery gave me his Sisters of Battle army and that copy of Rogue Trader and an idea began to form.
A group of my older gaming friends play "Alpha Magic". They collect Alpha set cards and construct original 40 card decks and play when they are together. We are spread out quite far nowadays, from Iowa City to Chicago to New Hampshire to Norway. I thought about that copy of Rogue Trader and realized that I had *two* rulebooks. What if we could somehow bring back our old models, like Jason's Squats or Sean's Imperial Guard (many of which were bought when they were called Imperial Army)?
Could it be possible?
I dug out the resources I had at hand, thankful (for once) for my packrat mentality. Back in the day my Grandma Haise used to buy all of the grandkids magazine subscriptions, so I asked for White Dwarf. I dug out all the copies I owned prior to 1993 (the year that 2nd Edition came out) and got to work.
I was also emboldened when I found a treasure trove of Rogue Trader Era models in Ellery's collection, including five of the original metal Space Marine models. The one piece models with lasguns and lascannons and the like. I made a few phone calls and wrote a few emails and posted on a local forum and now things seem to be in motion for Retro Trader...
I really can't stand the current edition of Warhammer 40,000 and I'd given up on Games Workshop as a company long ago. I haven't played in almost three years, most of my gaming now is Warmachine and/or Hordes and I'm very happy with Privateer Press. Yet deep down inside I've always had this love of Warhammer 40,000. Not because the rules were any good. Quite the opposite, in fact. Not because the models were awesome. It's because its the first real game I ever really played and loved. It also might have to do with the science fiction elements that are prevalent in the background. That's something that I'm missing in Privateer Press right now.
About four years ago I threw all my old Space Marine models into a bucket of Simple Green (a great household product that also happens to safely remove paint from plastic models). I got the idea then to repaint the models as Crimson Fists as an homage to the original rulebook cover (which features the last stand of a group of heroic Crimson Fist Space Marines). Back then (in the heady days of 4th edition) I was intent on making an army for each of the loyalist Marine Chapters as well as rounding out my Imperial Fists and their successor chapters (I already had a decently painted Black Templars Army).
Then 5th edition came out. I tried. I really tried to enjoy playing, but the changes to the game infuriated me. For every rule that *needed* to be changed, four other rules were randomly changed as well. Most infuriating was the addition of "True Line Of Sight" which, in case you didn't know, isn't *actually* true line of sight.
Richard Linklater once said that "withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy". That's pretty much how I feel about Warhammer 40,000 right now. I don't expect that it will change for the better any time soon. Games Workshop seems intent upon making money at the expense of their players, and that's fine. I just don't plan on playing along.
And so my marine armies (and my three Tau armies, my two Eldar armies, my two Imperial Guard armies, my Chaos Marine armies...)sat in their cases and were neatly stacked against the wall. Then Ellery gave me his Sisters of Battle army and that copy of Rogue Trader and an idea began to form.
A group of my older gaming friends play "Alpha Magic". They collect Alpha set cards and construct original 40 card decks and play when they are together. We are spread out quite far nowadays, from Iowa City to Chicago to New Hampshire to Norway. I thought about that copy of Rogue Trader and realized that I had *two* rulebooks. What if we could somehow bring back our old models, like Jason's Squats or Sean's Imperial Guard (many of which were bought when they were called Imperial Army)?
Could it be possible?
I dug out the resources I had at hand, thankful (for once) for my packrat mentality. Back in the day my Grandma Haise used to buy all of the grandkids magazine subscriptions, so I asked for White Dwarf. I dug out all the copies I owned prior to 1993 (the year that 2nd Edition came out) and got to work.
I was also emboldened when I found a treasure trove of Rogue Trader Era models in Ellery's collection, including five of the original metal Space Marine models. The one piece models with lasguns and lascannons and the like. I made a few phone calls and wrote a few emails and posted on a local forum and now things seem to be in motion for Retro Trader...
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